Ep 5. Colicky baby! Tips on how to relieve tummy aches and better communicate with your baby with Pranjul Tandon, Certified Childbirth Educator.
Colicky baby. Tips on how to relieve tummy ache in a baby.
As a mother herself, Pranjul spent a significant amount of time seeking truthful, logical and scientific principles that helped her during her pregnancy. This inspired her to become a certified Childbirth Educator.
Pranjul shares her journey with me, the common misconceptions and how to debunk those old wives tales. We talk about colic, how it’s diagnosed and what a colicky baby might be experiencing. She also shares her tips and tricks on how we can relieve our babies tummy aches and colic.
Season 1 Ep 5
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hi mama you’re listening to the mama
podcast it’s sumayya here the co-founder
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of mama ME app
mama me is the first app to exclusively
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connect mothers across the middle east
connects with like-minded mamas and
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creates lifelong friendships
at mama we are all about connecting
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mamas to empower women
so let’s join together and make this
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mission a reality
today we’re talking all about colic and
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tummy aches for babies i’m joined by the
wonderful pranjal who’s a newborn
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care coach and infant childbirth
educator, Pranjul has so much
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information to share
so let’s get stuck in. Hi pranjul thank
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you so much for joining me today i’m so
excited to talk to you and we’re going
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to talk all about colic
so much to learn about for me and
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yeah thank you for taking the time
thank you Sumayya thank you for
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having me here my pleasure so
pranjel if we could start off with where
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where you did your education what led
you into this
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early um child education and
pregnant or helping pregnant women that
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would be amazing just to give us a bit
of um
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give me and the listeners a bit of a
background of what led you to where you
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are now
so i had quite an interesting journey
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by education i’m an electronics and
communications engineer
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so that’s how i i started my career
and i worked uh you know uh in uh
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in an engineering firm you know for two
years
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and uh as a communications engineer and
that was back in india
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and then i took a break when i was
pregnant i took a break
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uh i wanted to you know uh bring up my
uh baby girl and you know i i don’t i
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didn’t want to face those tough
office hours of you know like a 11 or a
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12
hour workday because back back in india
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that’s what a typical corporate life is
you know all like
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is like you know it actually uh you know
it starts
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early in the morning and it ends only by
dinner time
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so the work life balance is not pretty
much there
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you know in a lot of countries
and uh you know being being from india
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that’s how
my life was initially but then
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i really didn’t want to you know
continue with that and
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uh my husband also you know we were we
were kind of
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unsure whether we want to continue in
india or move abroad so i was like
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i was very keen to have you know a
change of career
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and uh by that time my daughter was
uh you know around one one and a half
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years of
age and uh i i realized you know like
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while bringing her up i realized how
many
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uh how many uh policies and how many
superstitions are there you know
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in people’s minds you know even educated
people’s minds
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like there are so many myths so many
superstitions
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and young moms they actually uh they
actually fall for that
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so i spent a lot of time researching you
know
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uh about the science behind things
you know uh like whether it’s something
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as
simple as uh my child’s uh you know
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food or or you know whether i should
give her some
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uh some food item to eat or not or
should i hold back till she’s
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a certain age or whether it’s her poop
color
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or whether you know whether uh you know
it’s about the little
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uh illnesses she’s having you know
what’s the scientific reason behind that
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and the relief strategies that many you
know
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many people used to suggest around me
did they make any sense
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so when i did my research on all of that
i
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i realized that there was a big big gap
and that really needs to be you know
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filled um
and uh you know
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the other thing that uh came into the
picture was that
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a lot of um companies you know a lot of
uh
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uh commercial there was a lot of
commercialization of baby products you
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know like hey
use this it would improve that you know
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that kind of a thing
or you know uh if your child is two
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years of age
use this product along with milk to give
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them extra strength or to you know
increase their height
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so all that led me to uh question a lot
of things
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and as i researched i i saw that there
was
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uh there was really uh you know scope of
educating my peers and scope of telling
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them
about the logical and scientific
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explanation you know for a lot of things
and that’s how i decided to train as a
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child birth educator
i did my training with um childbirth and
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postpartum professional association
headquartered in the us so i did my
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training with them
and the training uh it lasted for around
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two years where i attended a lot of
classes a lot of workshops i
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gave a couple of exams i i had a lot to
read a lot of workshops to attend
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and uh so around 2000 early 2016
i graduated as a childbirth educator
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and we were in uh europe we were in
monaco at that time so that’s where my
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journey began and that’s how that’s
where i started
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uh taking uh you know workshops for
pregnant women
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and that’s how women beyond was born
and so did you find so that transition
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from
india to monaco obviously was during
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your time when you were studying did you
find that the same challenges existed in
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monaco with the women there too
yes of course i mean i was very
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surprised so i used to think that
a lot of superstitions were coming you
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know from
uh the indian um indian related myths
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indian related uh culture but no like my
i remember my first client she was
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petrified because
uh she had uh she had a miscarriage
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before that
and just the morning of miscarriage the
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morning she had miscarriage she had
eaten
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two teaspoons of flax seeds and
immediately after that unfortunately she
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had a miscarriage
so in her mind she found she formed a
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notion that somehow
flax seeds and miscarriage is connected
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and she was uh you know she was
a colombian living in monaco so there
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was there was
so that’s when i decided that’s when i
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realized that yes
myths and superstitions they they exist
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in a lot of minds
and they are formed because of negative
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experiences
or you know certain challenges that
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people face and it’s
uh it’s really required for uh
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there’s always a space for a peer
counselor to come in
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and actually tell the moms using science
and logic that no that’s not the case
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and how to look at things you know in in
in a better way
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yeah and so does that mean your role
really
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entails helping moms really figure out
where to get that information
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or is it that people come to you with
issues and problems and you help figure
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those out yeah so uh my
aim my goal is to uh you know guide moms
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to the correct information to
help them find the correct resources to
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uh
solve like in the sense that uh you know
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i often uh tell them that
hey if you look at these uh these
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websites
they are sort of uh medically verified
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you know by doctors or this article is
written by a
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well-known doctor so it it will
definitely have some truth to it
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uh rather than uh you know it’s like
obviously so i guide them to uh
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evidence-based information
that’s my main aim and there are a lot
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of times when
you know new parents or pregnant women
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come to me with issues like they’re
having
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fever or their child is having diarrhea
so my aim at that
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time is to tell them about or you know
to guide them
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uh about making that that choice whether
to
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go to a doctor whether to go to an
emergency
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or whether to wait it out for it to
subside so i help them make that
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decision
uh and i always provide them
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evidence-based information while
making that decision so ultimately it’s
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a pe
it’s the parents choice i am not uh
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i’m not equipped to make a decision for
them
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or to tell them what to do but i can
always
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help them out uh by using uh scientific
information that i have access to that’s
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incredible because you can guide them
with the
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specific problem that they’re having at
the time but also
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from that they will learn what val what
information is more valuable than other
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information
i guess so it’s it’s a learning curve
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for them as well because in the future
they would be able to
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draw on that knowledge and make
decisions that are a bit more well
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informed
yeah exactly i mean i mean they know
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that
okay if uh suppose if a newborn baby is
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having fever
so you know they they know that i need
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to uh look out for
these many warning signs you know and if
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any of these warning signs
exist then i know that then i tell them
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that you must know
that going to a medical professional is
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important but if those warning signs
don’t
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exist you can wait a couple of hours and
see how thing
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goes so it’s like basically giving them
the confidence
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to uh you know to uh actually tied
across that situation
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and and that confidence actually many a
times only
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a a peer counselor or an educator can
give
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because no nurse or no doctor has the
time to actually you know
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get into depth you know like if the baby
has just
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a very slight fever say 99.8 you know
and the mother is freaking out i think
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no doctor or no nurse
might entertain her in in many countries
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it’s that when an educator can actually
come
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and uh you know sort of like um
give her the confidence and kind of calm
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her down that
uh by by showing her evidence
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yeah and that makes sense because you
know doctors and
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nurses i guess for them this is like
something they deal with all the time so
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they don’t realize that
sometimes the emotional um aspect that
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the mom is going through but you really
do
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you would have the time and and like you
know you’d be able to
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accommodate that kind of situation where
you can actually talk about
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it and go through her their mom’s
concerns or the dad’s concerns and
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actually talk about that in detail
which is really interesting and i mean
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we chose the topic of colic
as our topic of discussion today because
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it’s
it’s such a big topic and we hear about
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it so
much um especially when the child is
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quite young
um so i think it’d be great if you could
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just maybe
briefly describe what colic is and
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because i know
um i know this may be a personal
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experience but sometimes what happens is
people
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talk about colic and it may not actually
be colic
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and so there’s so many different people
use that term for so many different
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things
yeah exactly so i have noticed that
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anytime a baby cries uh you know it has
become a common
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it has become a common lingo to say my
baby is having college so
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any time the baby is crying the parents
say uh
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they are they they comment that oh my
baby is having a colicky day
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or my baby has colic almost uh
interesting is when their baby is like
0:11:59.760,0:12:03.680
one and a half or two years old and the
parent is like oh my baby still has
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colic
so uh that’s that’s quite interesting
0:12:06.720,0:12:10.720
interesting and
uh incorrect i would say because uh
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colic
is uh is not the other name of a baby
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crying
it’s something that is completely
0:12:17.120,0:12:21.519
different
so colic happens uh when a baby
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that is around two to three weeks of age
till around four to five months of age
0:12:28.240,0:12:33.360
in between that age group
tries for uh more than three
0:12:33.360,0:12:40.399
hours uh almost every day
and this pattern continues for
0:12:40.399,0:12:46.480
more than three weeks you know so
if the baby is crying three to four
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times a week
more than three hours every day
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on those days and this pattern is
continuing
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week after week after week since the
last three weeks at least
0:12:58.639,0:13:05.200
then only we can say that yes the baby
is definitely having colic like
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is having colic and if you suspect that
you know your baby is um having colic
0:13:11.839,0:13:16.959
and the signs of the colic are that the
baby will cry in very high pitch volume
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it would almost be like
shrieking the crying is almost like
0:13:21.519,0:13:26.079
shrieking away
uh and uh if you feel that
0:13:26.079,0:13:30.000
and nothing you do can comfort the baby
easily you know you you really can’t
0:13:30.000,0:13:32.639
figure out why the baby is crying
because
0:13:32.639,0:13:36.800
physically you can’t make out anything
that is wrong with the baby
0:13:36.800,0:13:41.600
but the baby is crying for hours at end
so if this is happening to your baby the
0:13:41.600,0:13:46.880
first thing you should be doing is
uh visiting a pediatrician to understand
0:13:46.880,0:13:52.480
uh that this is colic or something like
an ear infection or some kind of
0:13:52.480,0:13:57.519
internal infection or injury that is
causing the baby to be so distressed
0:13:57.519,0:14:03.839
so of course it always helps to
get it verified from a pediatrician that
0:14:03.839,0:14:09.040
this truly is colic
but please keep in mind that a colic
0:14:09.040,0:14:12.560
usually disappears by the time the child
is around
0:14:12.560,0:14:17.839
four months of age so by four months of
age 90 80 to 90 percent of the babies
0:14:17.839,0:14:22.320
are cured you know from this temporary
health condition called colic
0:14:22.320,0:14:27.600
uh by five months of age it’s
after five months of age it’s rare for a
0:14:27.600,0:14:33.680
baby to suffer from colic
so uh so it’s it’s important to uh keep
0:14:33.680,0:14:37.040
uh you know the the age group in mind
while
0:14:37.040,0:14:41.920
uh but when when uh you know when saying
that hey my child is suffering from
0:14:41.920,0:14:45.600
colic
also many parents they uh you know they
0:14:45.600,0:14:50.240
get a newborn home from the hospital
the first few days are kind of tough
0:14:50.240,0:14:54.480
because the baby
is uh learning how to feed the baby
0:14:54.480,0:14:57.040
might be
you know a little uncomfortable the
0:14:57.040,0:15:00.480
parents are learning
so during that time if the baby is
0:15:00.480,0:15:04.079
crying a lot
then also many uh parents jump to the
0:15:04.079,0:15:07.519
conclusion that
oh my six day old baby is having colic
0:15:07.519,0:15:11.760
no it’s too early for us to say
maybe it is colic but it’s too early for
0:15:11.760,0:15:15.440
us to say that
it’s colic so until the baby is around
0:15:15.440,0:15:20.000
three weeks of age
it’s hard to uh it’s hard for us to
0:15:20.000,0:15:24.160
guess whether it’s colic or not
and when you say three hours do you mean
0:15:24.160,0:15:29.120
three hours continuously or three hours
in the day as a total thumb
0:15:29.120,0:15:33.199
that’s the main characteristic it’s it’s
almost continuously
0:15:33.199,0:15:37.120
it’s it’s continuous continuous crying
so you really can’t
0:15:37.120,0:15:40.800
miss out on that it’s like continuous
crying
0:15:40.800,0:15:43.920
for no apparent reason and nothing you
know
0:15:43.920,0:15:50.160
helps the baby uh calm down easily
that’s really interesting because i mean
0:15:50.160,0:15:52.880
three hours is a really long time of
crying
0:15:52.880,0:15:57.600
right like having a child cry for that
amount of time must be
0:15:57.600,0:16:01.759
quite challenging for the parents yeah
it is it’s because
0:16:01.759,0:16:04.800
but for the parents as well right not
really knowing what’s going
0:16:04.800,0:16:11.120
on and so um are there sort of any
real strategies or things in place that
0:16:11.120,0:16:15.680
can help resolve or
improve colic so uh
0:16:15.680,0:16:19.680
like before uh knowing like before
learning what are the strategies it’s
0:16:19.680,0:16:24.480
important to learn what causes it and
unfortunately we cannot learn what
0:16:24.480,0:16:28.320
causes it because even the doctors their
opinions are completely different on
0:16:28.320,0:16:31.519
what
causes it so there are multiple theories
0:16:31.519,0:16:34.639
on what could be causing this very
temporary
0:16:34.639,0:16:39.839
yet stressful health condition so some
doctors feel that this has something to
0:16:39.839,0:16:44.800
do with the intestines of the baby
some doctors feel that some grow extra
0:16:44.800,0:16:49.600
growth of healthy bacteria
causes this condition some doctors feel
0:16:49.600,0:16:53.440
that
you know the baby’s uh digestion system
0:16:53.440,0:16:58.639
is uh growing improving maturing and
that causes colic
0:16:58.639,0:17:03.519
so uh so there there is a group of
doctors that feel that
0:17:03.519,0:17:07.760
colic is somehow related to the baby’s
digestive system
0:17:07.760,0:17:14.240
whereas the other set of doctors feel
that colic is uh because of emotional
0:17:14.240,0:17:18.959
reasons like sometimes the baby
some babies are a little more sensitive
0:17:18.959,0:17:22.880
than the others
and those babies uh when they uh when
0:17:22.880,0:17:25.919
they hear
a lot of noise or sounds in the
0:17:25.919,0:17:29.679
background
or they see a lot of faces they really
0:17:29.679,0:17:33.679
get overwhelmed
and politic is a way for them to uh you
0:17:33.679,0:17:37.679
know
get some sort of relief like by the
0:17:37.679,0:17:42.160
by the time the afternoon rolls in they
are like i have had it enough and they
0:17:42.160,0:17:45.440
cry it out
to kind of because of that over
0:17:45.440,0:17:50.320
stimulation they have had during the day
so there are two sets of theories and
0:17:50.320,0:17:54.720
it’s amazing
that i have met uh parents whose babies
0:17:54.720,0:17:59.120
suffer from colic
and i’ve actually had parents who swore
0:17:59.120,0:18:03.280
that uh you know
over stimulation was the reason that was
0:18:03.280,0:18:06.480
causing colic
and there are many many parents who say
0:18:06.480,0:18:10.880
that their child’s digestion issues
you know was the one that was causing
0:18:10.880,0:18:15.679
colic so it’s it’s really confusing
but there seems to be like these two
0:18:15.679,0:18:19.360
main groups
and the other characteristic of college
0:18:19.360,0:18:25.520
that that is truly unique is that
uh colic you usually strikes at the same
0:18:25.520,0:18:29.840
uh you know same time every day so a
quality baby
0:18:29.840,0:18:35.039
would usually start crying around the
same time in the afternoon or in the
0:18:35.039,0:18:38.240
evening
and usually that time is you know
0:18:38.240,0:18:42.080
afternoons or
evenings or towards the night time so
0:18:42.080,0:18:45.679
that
that uh you know kind of uh leads uh
0:18:45.679,0:18:49.200
many doctors to further believe that yes
it has some uh
0:18:49.200,0:18:52.240
something to do with over stimulation
from
0:18:52.240,0:18:56.559
since the morning since the start of the
day the child is totally overstimulated
0:18:56.559,0:19:01.360
but uh the the real reason still till
date no doctor knows
0:19:01.360,0:19:05.679
so i guess if you did like i mean if you
were your child was diagnosed with colic
0:19:05.679,0:19:09.919
then you could potentially try
both other news in terms of a relief
0:19:09.919,0:19:13.760
strategy
so uh in when it comes to relief
0:19:13.760,0:19:17.919
strategies
uh i basically trained as
0:19:17.919,0:19:23.280
a a newborn care coach and i trained as
an infant massage instructor
0:19:23.280,0:19:29.360
uh and uh i was um
i trained in a lot of college relief
0:19:29.360,0:19:32.640
strategies
and the the my favorite strategy you
0:19:32.640,0:19:35.520
know my my favorite advice to parents
would be
0:19:35.520,0:19:42.720
to use a lot of um you know massage
to help calm the quality baby down
0:19:42.720,0:19:48.400
now massage has two benefits a it’s very
relaxing as we all know because you know
0:19:48.400,0:19:53.039
when when someone is massaging us there
is a release of a lot of good hormones
0:19:53.039,0:19:56.480
in our body
and in the baby’s bodies you know so
0:19:56.480,0:19:59.679
it’s oxytocin’s
endorphins being released which
0:19:59.679,0:20:04.880
obviously helps calm
you know babies down the other advantage
0:20:04.880,0:20:11.679
of a massage is that
when a baby is crying a lot the baby
0:20:11.679,0:20:15.840
ends up swallowing
a lot of air and that may cause gas
0:20:15.840,0:20:20.320
in the baby so colicky babies are
usually
0:20:20.320,0:20:27.360
gassy too because of excessive crying
they end up swallowing the excess air so
0:20:27.360,0:20:31.360
when we do massage you know on an infant
it actually helps
0:20:31.360,0:20:37.200
uh release excessive gas
and that i think is uh is is a good
0:20:37.200,0:20:41.120
strategy
when dealing with colic and another
0:20:41.120,0:20:46.000
strategy that i always
advise is that when a baby is crying you
0:20:46.000,0:20:50.799
know because of colic and you are sure
that there is nothing like physically or
0:20:50.799,0:20:54.480
majorly wrong
uh with with the baby but the baby is
0:20:54.480,0:20:57.679
just going on crying and you really
can’t figure the reason out
0:20:57.679,0:21:01.760
it’s important for parents to realize
that it happens
0:21:01.760,0:21:05.360
you know it it will not harm the baby
permanently
0:21:05.360,0:21:09.120
and the parents need to become
themselves because babies at the end of
0:21:09.120,0:21:13.120
the day they imitate the parents
so if the parent starts panicking starts
0:21:13.120,0:21:16.720
crying and then some parents even in
anger start shaking the baby which is
0:21:16.720,0:21:19.760
very very
harmful for the baby so it’s important
0:21:19.760,0:21:23.679
for parents to remain relaxed remain
cool and remain calm
0:21:23.679,0:21:29.039
and know that this is just a phase and
it will pass away really really soon
0:21:29.039,0:21:34.159
so uh yeah so these are my top
strategies for dealing with colic
0:21:34.159,0:21:38.640
yeah and i think remaining calm is
obviously must be so challenging when
0:21:38.640,0:21:42.880
your child is crying for so long
um so just from my personal experience
0:21:42.880,0:21:47.200
my daughter actually has a
cow’s milk allergy and we didn’t know
0:21:47.200,0:21:50.559
that until she was around
eight or nine months old so we had a lot
0:21:50.559,0:21:56.480
of crying sessions when she was younger
it would never last three hours but
0:21:56.480,0:22:00.320
one thing that i can say is it’s okay to
put your baby down for a minute or two
0:22:00.320,0:22:04.240
just to have a breather
do you know anything sometimes like we
0:22:04.240,0:22:07.919
really sort of focus on trying to get
the cup baby to calm down but for us to
0:22:07.919,0:22:10.559
remain calm
it may mean that you have to put the
0:22:10.559,0:22:15.360
baby down step out of the situation
have a minute have a have a couple of
0:22:15.360,0:22:18.000
minutes and for me my husband travels a
lot for work so
0:22:18.000,0:22:21.039
it wasn’t always that he was around to
you know
0:22:21.039,0:22:25.200
take over and that might mean in some
situations it may mean that i had to put
0:22:25.200,0:22:29.039
her down for a minute
walk away just have a breather and then
0:22:29.039,0:22:31.440
go back in
and and i think that’s important to
0:22:31.440,0:22:34.640
remember because
you know when you’re in them in the
0:22:34.640,0:22:38.640
thick of it it’s really quite
challenging sometimes and
0:22:38.640,0:22:42.159
my daughter never cried for that amount
of time but it is even when she was
0:22:42.159,0:22:46.480
crying for 45 minutes an hour it was
still quite challenging
0:22:46.480,0:22:50.000
absolutely and uh especially you know if
you
0:22:50.000,0:22:54.720
yourself are calm and the environment
around you is quite you know calm
0:22:54.720,0:22:59.600
with no additional noise coming in many
a times that works on quality babies
0:22:59.600,0:23:02.799
because again as i said before
the theory is that it’s the over
0:23:02.799,0:23:08.000
stimulation that is causing them
you know to cry so much so if if you
0:23:08.000,0:23:13.679
dim the lights if you uh reduce any
uh you know additional extra noise
0:23:13.679,0:23:16.640
coming in
or maybe switch on some white noise some
0:23:16.640,0:23:21.039
babies tend to like it
and you yourself are breathing you know
0:23:21.039,0:23:25.919
very calmly and very deeply
so uh you know eventually the baby will
0:23:25.919,0:23:29.520
calm down with you
and so the colic drops is something that
0:23:29.520,0:23:32.400
you see everywhere right on every kind
of
0:23:32.400,0:23:38.400
um shop floor like where there’s
baby products there’s always colic drops
0:23:38.400,0:23:41.200
so
what what are the thoughts on colic
0:23:41.200,0:23:46.480
drops and do they work
so uh you know there are a variety of
0:23:46.480,0:23:50.880
colic drops
and sometimes uh you know there are gas
0:23:50.880,0:23:54.480
drops like to reduce the gas there are
medicines to
0:23:54.480,0:23:58.159
reduce gas which are being sold as for
colic as well
0:23:58.159,0:24:04.080
and there are sometimes bright water uh
which is being sold as uh something to
0:24:04.080,0:24:08.799
help relieve
colic so uh as per
0:24:08.799,0:24:13.440
my information till date there is no
medical research that proves that these
0:24:13.440,0:24:16.960
drops work
and it’s important to know that they are
0:24:16.960,0:24:22.799
just an alternative therapy
so no uh nobody can say for sure that
0:24:22.799,0:24:26.960
they work
and uh sometimes if the baby gets
0:24:26.960,0:24:33.120
a lot of gas while crying
uh and the baby is passing gas while
0:24:33.120,0:24:36.960
crying and you can see hard pockets of
air in the baby’s stomach and you know
0:24:36.960,0:24:39.440
that
okay the baby is colicky as well as
0:24:39.440,0:24:46.159
gassy and if your pediatrician refers
uh you know some kind of gas anti-gas
0:24:46.159,0:24:51.440
medicine they sometimes work and parents
feel that hey these drops really work
0:24:51.440,0:24:55.600
but that’s you know that’s not really
the solution to the
0:24:55.600,0:24:59.520
bigger problem it just solved one of the
symptoms that was gas
0:24:59.520,0:25:05.760
when it comes to gripe water and other
you know herbal colic medicines uh it’s
0:25:05.760,0:25:09.360
important to
keep in mind that any medicine that you
0:25:09.360,0:25:14.559
are giving to your newborn
must must be vetted by a pediatrician
0:25:14.559,0:25:18.320
must have been recommended by a
pediatrician otherwise it could be
0:25:18.320,0:25:21.520
harmful for your little one’s tiny
digestive system
0:25:21.520,0:25:24.960
a lot of time uh a la uh you know we say
oh
0:25:24.960,0:25:28.480
it’s okay to give some medicine to a
newborn because it’s herbal
0:25:28.480,0:25:34.400
but please keep in mind that these herbs
are they are actually you know they are
0:25:34.400,0:25:38.320
very potent
herbs are not something that have zero
0:25:38.320,0:25:42.240
side effects
even herbs have side effects and
0:25:42.240,0:25:48.240
unfortunately a lot of parents in their
uh you know in their frustration they
0:25:48.240,0:25:51.039
end up
over feeding their child those herbal
0:25:51.039,0:25:55.679
medicines which is again wrong
because uh the babies they have they are
0:25:55.679,0:25:59.440
so tiny
that overfeeding any herbal medicine can
0:25:59.440,0:26:05.600
be harmful for the babies too
so um so always only go for medically
0:26:05.600,0:26:09.520
recommended medicines
and always stay away from medicines that
0:26:09.520,0:26:14.240
have alcohol
or sugar in them because uh you know
0:26:14.240,0:26:18.799
especially in the 70s and 80s there were
a lot of bright water brands that had
0:26:18.799,0:26:22.080
alcohol and sugar in them and when you
fed them to the baby
0:26:22.080,0:26:26.159
obviously the baby enjoyed the taste
because of the sugar and fell instantly
0:26:26.159,0:26:28.400
asleep
and the parents you know they felt
0:26:28.400,0:26:31.919
victorious that hey this ripe water
really works but it was working
0:26:31.919,0:26:35.039
because of the alcohol and sugar content
which is really
0:26:35.039,0:26:40.159
harmful for the baby so always check the
ingredients it shouldn’t have
0:26:40.159,0:26:46.080
those two uh things and always
uh if your doctor asked you to take it
0:26:46.080,0:26:50.240
then only take it otherwise no
that’s really interesting because like
0:26:50.240,0:26:54.080
my mom’s generation my mom
and my aunts who are of that generation
0:26:54.080,0:26:57.600
sort of swear by
white water but that’s probably why
0:26:57.600,0:27:01.440
because it was probably filled with tons
of sugar and alcohol and we were just so
0:27:01.440,0:27:04.640
fast asleep because they gave us some
great water
0:27:04.640,0:27:10.559
i asked have still seen some uh bright
water brands that have alcohol and sugar
0:27:10.559,0:27:13.840
so just be aware so we’d read the label
i guess
0:27:13.840,0:27:17.440
read read the label all the time you
know
0:27:17.440,0:27:20.960
so that’s really interesting because i
mean
0:27:20.960,0:27:25.039
colic is such a i mean that’s a very
specific this is what colic is
0:27:25.039,0:27:30.320
and this is how to identify it
but there are so many other conditions
0:27:30.320,0:27:34.960
that give
similar symptoms exactly like for
0:27:34.960,0:27:40.080
example my daughter was initially
diagnosed or they were con sort of
0:27:40.080,0:27:44.480
suspecting that she may be colic
because of the sort of the time that she
0:27:44.480,0:27:46.960
would cry and the
the length that she would cry but there
0:27:46.960,0:27:50.399
were other symptoms that sort of drew
them away from the fact that it was
0:27:50.399,0:27:53.919
colic and it wasn’t colic and it was
quite a long time so i breastfed for a
0:27:53.919,0:27:57.200
while and it’s not until we introduced
until we introduced formula that we
0:27:57.200,0:28:01.600
realized that she actually had something
more specific to the actual cow’s milk
0:28:01.600,0:28:05.039
and i’m not
um dairy free so in my diet there was
0:28:05.039,0:28:10.240
always some element of dairy
and it took a long time to eliminate and
0:28:10.240,0:28:14.320
get to that that point
but there was a time when we would speak
0:28:14.320,0:28:16.399
to the doctors and the doctors would
sort of
0:28:16.399,0:28:20.720
talk about this um potential that she
was colleague or she had colic
0:28:20.720,0:28:23.840
so there are so many other conditions
that give or mimic
0:28:23.840,0:28:30.000
colic right yeah so unfortunately
uh till now we don’t know the exact
0:28:30.000,0:28:33.600
cause of colic
and so we are still very confused and
0:28:33.600,0:28:38.880
that’s why there are a lot of moms who
uh who claim that you know when they
0:28:38.880,0:28:43.200
eliminated dairy
or they eliminated certain uh gassy food
0:28:43.200,0:28:47.360
products from their
diet their baby calmed down so
0:28:47.360,0:28:52.799
uh you know and we still and we have to
like kind of take that into account
0:28:52.799,0:28:58.000
so if you um if you really suspect and
if you especially if you have a strong
0:28:58.000,0:29:02.240
uh you know uh family history of any
kind of food allergy
0:29:02.240,0:29:09.120
then it makes sense to eliminate certain
uh food products from your diet to see
0:29:09.120,0:29:13.919
if that is causing uh you know your
baby’s colic to go away or not
0:29:13.919,0:29:18.720
so dairy being one of it because the
dairy protein proteins can actually
0:29:18.720,0:29:22.480
uh seep in you know to the uh breast
milk via
0:29:22.480,0:29:26.080
blood so there are a lot of foods that
really don’t impact the breast
0:29:26.080,0:29:30.559
milk but certain foods like dairy like
alcohol like caffeine they do
0:29:30.559,0:29:33.919
impact the breast milk and especially
for uh
0:29:33.919,0:29:37.840
especially for babies who are who have
say dairy
0:29:37.840,0:29:41.360
intolerance or allergies related to
dairy products
0:29:41.360,0:29:46.799
so if you suspect that it won’t harm to
just give it a try
0:29:46.799,0:29:52.720
uh and see what what works for you
yeah i totally i mean for me i wish i’d
0:29:52.720,0:29:56.559
known that earlier because i would have
eliminated gary to just see what would
0:29:56.559,0:29:59.039
happen
and it would have made i’m sure like my
0:29:59.039,0:30:01.440
daughter would have been more
comfortable and it would have made life
0:30:01.440,0:30:04.480
a little bit easier because you would
have been crying for as long
0:30:04.480,0:30:07.840
um but you know you’d learn these things
as you go along and i’m sure like every
0:30:07.840,0:30:11.360
mother can relate to the fact that
you know there’s so much learning and
0:30:11.360,0:30:15.200
especially in those early months there’s
such a steep learning curve
0:30:15.200,0:30:18.240
yeah and and the good news is that uh by
uh
0:30:18.240,0:30:22.080
four to five months of age you know it’s
it’s over
0:30:22.080,0:30:26.640
like you will it it’s it’s absolutely
rare to see a six month old baby
0:30:26.640,0:30:31.840
suffering from colic it doesn’t happen
so it’s a very very short period of time
0:30:31.840,0:30:35.679
you know into history is it instant does
it just happen like
0:30:35.679,0:30:39.440
you know they they kind of go to five
months or six months and it just kind of
0:30:39.440,0:30:44.320
the crying just stops yeah it it does it
it happens like that but in fact
0:30:44.320,0:30:49.200
by uh by three to four months of age
most babies they start getting normal
0:30:49.200,0:30:52.880
and it kind of
it reduces and then stops it must be
0:30:52.880,0:30:55.120
such a
lovely feeling for a mom who’s dealing
0:30:55.120,0:30:57.200
with a colic baby do you know the day
that
0:30:57.200,0:31:01.440
they wake up and the child just sort of
stops crying or doesn’t cry as much
0:31:01.440,0:31:06.640
because obviously they still cry
but it’s not yeah and whatever they are
0:31:06.640,0:31:10.320
doing at that time point of time whether
they have cut out dairy or they are
0:31:10.320,0:31:13.440
giving some dried water or whether they
are massaging it
0:31:13.440,0:31:16.880
they all say that okay that thing worked
but if you
0:31:16.880,0:31:21.440
go through if you go to uh you know to
what doctors say
0:31:21.440,0:31:25.600
certain things are proven to work
massage being one of them
0:31:25.600,0:31:28.960
being in a calm environment uh being one
of them
0:31:28.960,0:31:33.120
and so useful will definitely work you
touched on massage quite a few times
0:31:33.120,0:31:35.519
there
and obviously baby massage is very
0:31:35.519,0:31:39.039
particular and there’s like a technique
of doing baby massage
0:31:39.039,0:31:44.320
um would you say to even if the
child isn’t suffering from colic would
0:31:44.320,0:31:46.000
you say that this is something
advantageous
0:31:46.000,0:31:51.279
for all babies definitely i mean there
is plenty of
0:31:51.279,0:31:55.039
medical research that has happened on
baby massage
0:31:55.039,0:31:58.880
and if using the correct techniques the
correct uh you know
0:31:58.880,0:32:04.080
the correct pressure because you cannot
be too harsh on babies by massaging them
0:32:04.080,0:32:10.000
uh so uh and if done with uh you know
uh love and care of course baby massage
0:32:10.000,0:32:12.720
is something that is useful for all
babies
0:32:12.720,0:32:18.799
and there is a science behind it uh our
you know touch is one of our most
0:32:18.799,0:32:23.600
important senses
so if a baby is born without uh without
0:32:23.600,0:32:27.360
the
power to see or without hearing
0:32:27.360,0:32:30.399
capability
the baby can still thrive in the world
0:32:30.399,0:32:32.880
the baby can still happily live in the
world
0:32:32.880,0:32:36.240
but no human being can survive without
touch
0:32:36.240,0:32:42.480
so touch is the most important sense
and it’s the first sense to form in the
0:32:42.480,0:32:46.960
womb
wow yeah so uh there were experiments
0:32:46.960,0:32:50.080
done
on babies who were around eight weeks of
0:32:50.080,0:32:55.519
gestational age in the womb
and those little embryos were stroked
0:32:55.519,0:32:59.679
using
a little strand of human hair
0:32:59.679,0:33:04.000
and on the cheeks and the baby had a
protective movement to move away from
0:33:04.000,0:33:08.159
that
a little stroke of hair oh wow
0:33:08.159,0:33:14.480
from the age of eight weeks yeah in
in the womb so that’s when touch
0:33:14.480,0:33:19.120
develops and touch is the last sense to
leave the human body
0:33:19.120,0:33:22.480
you know any human being can survive
without eyes or
0:33:22.480,0:33:25.519
ears or if your nose gets blocked and
you can’t taste or
0:33:25.519,0:33:29.919
uh you know smell anything that’s fine
you know it won’t end your life but
0:33:29.919,0:33:33.840
touch
it is there till our very last breath
0:33:33.840,0:33:38.159
and that is the reason why skin has been
classified as an organ
0:33:38.159,0:33:42.480
in fact it is a very very important
organ isn’t it like 70 percent of your
0:33:42.480,0:33:45.039
body
um or is the largest organ in the body
0:33:45.039,0:33:48.080
right largest organ in the body skin is
so important
0:33:48.080,0:33:53.120
and the only way to nourish that organ
is by massage
0:33:53.120,0:33:58.320
so you know when you massage a baby uh
as i said before a lot of good hormones
0:33:58.320,0:34:03.200
are released in the baby
because of uh you know touch and
0:34:03.200,0:34:07.279
uh if done correctly you know uh it can
actually
0:34:07.279,0:34:13.520
uh help get relief from a lot of
uh common ailments like uh colic being
0:34:13.520,0:34:17.679
one of them constipation
teething pain a lot of doctors if you go
0:34:17.679,0:34:21.119
to them with
saying that my baby has teething pain
0:34:21.119,0:34:24.800
they will not give you any pain killer
or something they would just say like
0:34:24.800,0:34:28.560
massage the gums
that’s the most obvious thing you know
0:34:28.560,0:34:34.000
my uh my eight-year-old recently had
uh um you know some teeth trouble she’s
0:34:34.000,0:34:37.280
eight years but the dentist said massage
her gums
0:34:37.280,0:34:41.599
so that’s the most obvious uh relief
thing that that
0:34:41.599,0:34:44.720
we do and it doesn’t have any side
effects
0:34:44.720,0:34:50.800
uh so uh so that’s how you know
from a lot of congestion you know you
0:34:50.800,0:34:54.800
can really get help from
congestion or sinus related issues if
0:34:54.800,0:34:59.920
you massage correctly
and a lot of uh you know relief from uh
0:34:59.920,0:35:05.280
physiological strain you know uh
you can get relief from that if you if
0:35:05.280,0:35:08.320
you massage and stretch your limbs
correctly
0:35:08.320,0:35:12.560
so there’s a very interesting scientific
um explanation to that right
0:35:12.560,0:35:16.000
and i’m sure you probably know what it
is but the
0:35:16.000,0:35:20.720
it’s getting so me getting geeky and
sort of digging into my biology days but
0:35:20.720,0:35:24.079
it’s when your c fibers are activated
instead of your pain
0:35:24.079,0:35:31.839
receptors which is your a fibers that
right yeah
0:35:32.160,0:35:35.040
it’s just something that you when you
were explaining it it just reminded me
0:35:35.040,0:35:39.280
of
of the c fibers and though and the most
0:35:39.280,0:35:43.040
important thing to remember is that uh
see one
0:35:43.040,0:35:46.480
one way of massaging is just like doing
it
0:35:46.480,0:35:49.920
out of instincts like when we pat a
newborns
0:35:49.920,0:35:54.240
back you know in order to make them work
that’s a very basic form of massage
0:35:54.240,0:35:56.800
which most parents they automatically
learn
0:35:56.800,0:36:00.640
just patting the back in order to make
them work but then there is
0:36:00.640,0:36:04.079
there are certain little technicalities
that come into play like
0:36:04.079,0:36:08.320
when massaging a newborn stomach to help
them get relief from colic
0:36:08.320,0:36:13.680
or just for general welding of this if
we massage their stomach
0:36:13.680,0:36:18.640
uh you know all human beings their uh
their intestines they work in a
0:36:18.640,0:36:23.040
clockwise direction
like the gas and the poop material it it
0:36:23.040,0:36:27.520
actually travels in a
clockwise way inside a human’s thumb
0:36:27.520,0:36:30.320
stomach
so massaging on on the stomach should
0:36:30.320,0:36:34.160
always be done in a clockwise direction
if you do it in the anti-clockwise
0:36:34.160,0:36:41.280
direction it won’t be that effective
so like that every part of a baby’s body
0:36:41.280,0:36:45.520
has some technique associated with it
and of course you have to be very
0:36:45.520,0:36:48.480
careful
not to provide any ticklish touch to the
0:36:48.480,0:36:52.320
baby at the same time not to be very
harsh on the baby because they are very
0:36:52.320,0:36:57.119
very delicate
you know so uh that’s how i coach
0:36:57.119,0:37:02.079
the parents you know to uh to to massage
not only for calling but for
0:37:02.079,0:37:06.240
general well-being of the baby i think
this all all this talk about massage has
0:37:06.240,0:37:09.599
really made me realize the importance of
me having a massage so maybe
0:37:09.599,0:37:13.119
once we get off this um podcast
recording i might go and
0:37:13.119,0:37:17.760
book myself a massage but um with your
massage classes right now they are
0:37:17.760,0:37:22.800
online at the moment currently at the
moment because of the covet thing it is
0:37:22.800,0:37:26.240
it is online
i mean up that’s actually absolutely the
0:37:26.240,0:37:31.680
safest because i don’t want to be
uh meeting any postpartum moms and their
0:37:31.680,0:37:38.240
newborn babies at this point of time
because anyways uh babies their immunity
0:37:38.240,0:37:43.040
is a lot
lower than ours and so it’s just best to
0:37:43.040,0:37:47.119
do it online at this point of time and
that makes sense and so are you still
0:37:47.119,0:37:51.359
running your other classes too
where um it’s more information-based
0:37:51.359,0:37:55.520
classes
yes so uh that’s the thing like when i
0:37:55.520,0:38:00.880
teach a pregnant woman about
a childbirth education it’s most mostly
0:38:00.880,0:38:05.040
information based
and what i try to do is i try and bridge
0:38:05.040,0:38:08.400
the gap between her and her health care
provider so
0:38:08.400,0:38:12.240
uh instead of telling her do this do
that you should be delivering like this
0:38:12.240,0:38:15.520
not like that
i tell her i encourage her to ask the
0:38:15.520,0:38:20.079
correct questions
from her doctor so that her information
0:38:20.079,0:38:25.200
is up to date and she in her mind knows
what she wants to do you know uh there
0:38:25.200,0:38:28.160
are some moms who have come to me with a
request for
0:38:28.160,0:38:32.800
elective cesarean you know and and it’s
not my job to tell her that
0:38:32.800,0:38:36.720
that’s risky it’s my job to tell her
about the
0:38:36.720,0:38:40.560
pros of her decision about the cons of
her decision
0:38:40.560,0:38:44.720
and if she wish and since she is already
visiting a doctor
0:38:44.720,0:38:48.079
what correct questions what kind of
questions she should be
0:38:48.079,0:38:52.320
asking the doctor so that her own
knowledge and what her own decision
0:38:52.320,0:38:56.079
making
can improve so that’s what i do that’s
0:38:56.079,0:39:00.480
how i work with pregnant moms
when it comes to newborn care it’s a bit
0:39:00.480,0:39:05.040
more practical because
i tell them a lot about breastfeeding uh
0:39:05.040,0:39:08.720
you know it’s again a lot of information
sharing and a lot of practical tips
0:39:08.720,0:39:13.280
about you know what they can do
uh then it’s about uh newborn safety you
0:39:13.280,0:39:17.119
know
like uh so simple things like uh
0:39:17.119,0:39:20.800
when your baby is crying many parents as
i mentioned before they get frustrated
0:39:20.800,0:39:23.839
and they end up shaking the baby that
what’s wrong with you stop crying that
0:39:23.839,0:39:27.280
is
completely wrong so i i is about car
0:39:27.280,0:39:30.000
seats and
everything so i i tell them about these
0:39:30.000,0:39:36.079
little uh safety things
and uh uh you know about diapers nappies
0:39:36.079,0:39:40.880
and you know what to expect out of a
diaper rash when it happens
0:39:40.880,0:39:44.079
what are the warning signs you know
because every baby they
0:39:44.079,0:39:48.079
they will get a rash or they will fall
ill at some point or the other
0:39:48.079,0:39:51.920
but what are the typical warning signs
which really
0:39:51.920,0:39:58.800
warrant a visit to the doctor so i i
inform them about uh those situations
0:39:58.800,0:40:02.560
and uh of course i teach them about baby
massage
0:40:02.560,0:40:06.960
and i have also started doing baby sign
language classes
0:40:06.960,0:40:11.040
so uh you know babies they’re very
intelligent and they observe everything
0:40:11.040,0:40:15.280
they pick up so much from the
environment and their brains are growing
0:40:15.280,0:40:19.359
at massive speeds
but till they are around one and a half
0:40:19.359,0:40:22.880
two
they really don’t have uh that ability
0:40:22.880,0:40:26.079
to form
proper words and sentences and that
0:40:26.079,0:40:31.200
causes a lot of frustration you know
in in parents as well as babies because
0:40:31.200,0:40:36.480
they have no other option but to cry
if they really want a particular toy and
0:40:36.480,0:40:39.839
the parent is not able to give
it to them and they are not able to kick
0:40:39.839,0:40:44.880
climb out of their crib to get it
ultimately they will start crying and
0:40:44.880,0:40:48.880
the parents will get frustrated and the
baby will get more upset
0:40:48.880,0:40:53.599
so that’s what encouraged me to study
baby sign language
0:40:53.599,0:41:00.480
and i it’s a it’s a way of telling
we teach babies through rhymes through
0:41:00.480,0:41:03.440
poems
uh through a lot of fun activities
0:41:03.440,0:41:06.400
through a lot of motor sensory
activities we re
0:41:06.400,0:41:12.720
we train them to sign for certain
objects which they use in their daily
0:41:12.720,0:41:16.400
lives
and sign for certain activities also
0:41:16.400,0:41:20.400
like all done
after a meal or more after a meal so
0:41:20.400,0:41:24.640
when we teach babies that
it really reduces their frustration and
0:41:24.640,0:41:28.400
it really helps the parents too
so it’s really a form of communication
0:41:28.400,0:41:32.640
between mom and child
full fledged parent intuition yes
0:41:32.640,0:41:36.079
full-fledged communication and it really
really helps you know
0:41:36.079,0:41:39.839
imagine a baby who’s just crying crying
crying and the parents are like what’s
0:41:39.839,0:41:43.200
wrong and if the baby can just point to
the ears
0:41:43.200,0:41:48.319
and you know make the sign of hurt that
means the ear is hurting and that’s why
0:41:48.319,0:41:53.119
the baby is crying the lie life becomes
really simple the parent knows that it
0:41:53.119,0:41:55.680
the
what to say to the doctor or you know
0:41:55.680,0:42:00.800
what first aid to give to the baby
and that really works it really really
0:42:00.800,0:42:03.760
works you know
i have a very favorite story you know to
0:42:03.760,0:42:08.400
share
so um there was this uh mom and a
0:42:08.400,0:42:13.520
child uh you know they used to uh go
swimming every summer afternoon
0:42:13.520,0:42:16.960
and they used to go to their
neighborhood pool to swim
0:42:16.960,0:42:20.800
and the baby used to be in that little
pool
0:42:20.800,0:42:24.880
and every time the mom took the baby out
of the pool
0:42:24.880,0:42:28.800
you know when it was time to go home the
baby as soon as the baby got out of the
0:42:28.800,0:42:31.119
pool
and was you know kept out of the pool
0:42:31.119,0:42:34.960
the baby used to start crying
so the mother concluded that my baby
0:42:34.960,0:42:39.119
really loves swimming
and every time i have to pull the baby
0:42:39.119,0:42:42.560
out of the pool
a tantrum would come right so she used
0:42:42.560,0:42:46.240
to tell everyone that
the baby loves swimming so much and he
0:42:46.240,0:42:50.640
was around 14 months
okay 14 months of age yeah so he could
0:42:50.640,0:42:56.560
kind of walk with support
and so this pattern continued continued
0:42:56.560,0:42:59.680
and she started coming to sign language
classes as well
0:42:59.680,0:43:03.040
so uh in the sign language classes they
were taught
0:43:03.040,0:43:08.880
uh the very basic sign of heart
right so so the baby blows and that’s
0:43:08.880,0:43:12.960
the sign of
a heart so uh
0:43:12.960,0:43:17.040
then the baby it continued it continued
the tantrums also continued around the
0:43:17.040,0:43:20.240
swimming pool
then one day when the mom she took the
0:43:20.240,0:43:24.720
baby out of the swimming pool
held his hand to walk towards the home
0:43:24.720,0:43:30.079
the baby actually started signing hot
and started blowing at his feet oh wow
0:43:30.079,0:43:33.599
that’s when the mom
realized that it was not a tantrum
0:43:33.599,0:43:36.720
because the baby was being pulled out of
water but actually
0:43:36.720,0:43:41.359
the area around the swimming pool it
used to get very hot
0:43:41.359,0:43:46.000
because of the sun floored the the
concrete floor around the swimming pool
0:43:46.000,0:43:50.560
used to really get hot
and those little and after that the
0:43:50.560,0:43:55.440
grass continued and then the house but
the mom always wore flip-flops when
0:43:55.440,0:43:59.359
pulling the baby out of the pool but the
baby was always uh naked
0:43:59.359,0:44:03.280
uh feet when pulling we didn’t wear any
slippers or any shoes
0:44:03.280,0:44:07.280
when being pulled out of the pool so the
baby actually the moment the
0:44:07.280,0:44:11.359
little feet hit the floor the baby used
to really the feet used to burn and the
0:44:11.359,0:44:15.280
baby used to
you know like really cry and cry but
0:44:15.280,0:44:18.400
there was no way the mom could guess
that it’s just
0:44:18.400,0:44:23.359
those five six steps that is causing the
baby so much agony oh wow
0:44:23.359,0:44:26.800
so it’s these little things that really
really
0:44:26.800,0:44:30.240
you know we just think that all the
babies are just being difficult or
0:44:30.240,0:44:33.119
they’re just
being spoiled i don’t know maybe they’re
0:44:33.119,0:44:37.440
just trying to act
funny but no they they really have their
0:44:37.440,0:44:41.119
reasons
that’s incredible to think that that
0:44:41.119,0:44:44.640
child or that baby was able to
communicate that actually his
0:44:44.640,0:44:48.240
feet were too hot yeah really interested
by this
0:44:48.240,0:44:55.680
it’s really incredible to hear yeah
so i think this is a great place to end
0:44:55.680,0:45:00.400
pranjel so where’s the best place
um for our listeners to find you and
0:45:00.400,0:45:04.000
how’s the best play or where’s the best
place to contact you
0:45:04.000,0:45:08.000
so i have a website it’s uh
0:45:09.319,0:45:14.079
www.boomandbeyond.info
so or you can always drop me
0:45:14.079,0:45:19.359
an email at pranjal at
movementbeyond.info
0:45:19.359,0:45:26.800
i’m also on instagram uh my handle is
uh boom underscore and underscore beyond
0:45:26.800,0:45:32.960
so i’m i’m quite active on social media
so it won’t be hard to you know catch me
0:45:32.960,0:45:37.760
somewhere i think i’ll pop all of those
details in the show notes so
0:45:37.760,0:45:41.520
um if any of our listeners want to
actually get in contact it’s really easy
0:45:41.520,0:45:44.560
they can find you in the show notes and
just click the links and they’ll be able
0:45:44.560,0:45:47.520
to
get directly to all of those places and
0:45:47.520,0:45:50.880
i’ll make sure that they’re all in there
i want to thank you again for your time
0:45:50.880,0:45:55.359
today it was really
um informative and um lovely hearing
0:45:55.359,0:45:58.480
from you as well
and i’m sure we’ll keep in touch and
0:45:58.480,0:46:02.480
maybe more to come
thank you so much it was my pleasure it
0:46:02.480,0:46:08.079
was lovely you know being on the show
thank you
Find Pranjul on Instagram @womb_and_beyond and website
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