Ep 11. Sara Chemmaa, Founder of Citron Dubai. The journey of Citron and balancing motherhood with work
The journey of Citron and balancing motherhood with work
In this episode I talk to Sara about her journey to making Citron what it is today, what the future holds for the brand and how Sara manages a busy work schedule with being a mother to 3 children under the age of 5.
Season 1 Ep 11
Listen here
00:03
hi mama you’re listening to the mama
00:05
podcast it’s samaya here the co-founder
00:08
of mama emmy app
00:10
mama me is the first app to exclusively
00:12
connect mothers
00:13
across the middle east connect with
00:15
like-minded mamas and create lifelong
00:18
friendships
00:19
at mama we are all about connecting
00:21
mamas to empower women
00:23
so let’s join together and make this
00:25
mission a reality
00:26
i’m back again this week with an awesome
00:29
episode
00:29
with sarah from citron dubai this brand
00:33
is absolutely incredible and this lady
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is even more inspiring
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thank you for bearing with me last week
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you must have seen on social media that
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we were in london for quite a few months
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but we managed to get back last week
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so last week was all about getting back
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into a routine and setting our schedule
00:50
again
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yeah it’s a pleasure i’ve been up to a
00:55
lot
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so i’m happy to share with you all the
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journey and what’s happened and
01:00
where we’re going yes so you started um
01:03
citron in 2017. so this is quite
01:07
interesting isn’t it because you dropped
01:09
your son off to nursery
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and when he was around 14 months is that
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right
01:15
around 16 months so about correct
01:18
and then so so here is what happens
01:22
so my son when he uh so he was
01:26
exclusively breastfed for 18 months he’s
01:28
never taken a bottle or anything
01:30
and i used to work full-time at the time
01:33
so it was like just horrible
01:35
so basically um at six months when we
01:38
started introducing the solids he
01:40
started showing signs of fussy eating he
01:42
wouldn’t open his mouth he never liked
01:44
anything he hated the spoon
01:46
so very quickly we moved on to giving
01:48
him larger and larger pieces where he
01:50
enjoyed much more
01:53
and during that journey i noticed that
01:55
he didn’t like his food to be touching
01:57
he liked only very plain
01:59
white colored food until today for him
02:01
white is a sign of safe
02:03
okay to eat so basically um at home i
02:08
had
02:08
all everything in place for him to have
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food not touching and everything
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and um came the nursery i had no idea
02:16
i’d call my friends i’m like hey i need
02:18
a lunchbox where do i get that from and
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they’re like just
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get this brand it should work so i get
02:22
the brand they told me
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uh i put the stuff in and i go pick him
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up from nursery and the teacher says
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oh he cried because his food was
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touching
02:32
um it leaked the berries touched the
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rice
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and oh chaos so he didn’t eat anything
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at that point of time i had to drop him
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back again to nursery the next day and i
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was the mom with like seven
02:47
small boxes right because that was the
02:49
only thing i could find
02:51
and the teacher was a bit annoyed saying
02:53
oh you know those are
02:54
there are those ones with compartments
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we saw here and there
02:59
so i started doing some research and
03:01
figured there was nothing available in
03:03
the uae basically
03:04
so i got it from the state so i got all
03:07
the brands that were available in
03:10
at that point from the states i bring
03:12
them and then i start packing and then i
03:14
find them either too small or too big
03:16
and i’m like oh gosh i don’t have the
03:19
size that he needs
03:20
what do i do now so then this is how it
03:23
started
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we went ahead found the manufacturer in
03:26
china
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did the size the designs all we liked
03:30
and then because
03:31
the minimum order quantities in china
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are quite big
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they have told us that 3 000 per color
03:37
was
03:38
the minimum we could get so i did
03:40
negotiate with them to give me three
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calories 1 000
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each so we did go ahead with 3 000
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pieces as a first order
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we couldn’t print much on it apart from
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the logo
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and we just brought them and
03:55
within a week they they were so loud
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that’s like a week 10 days so this is
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where i realized i was not the only
04:03
crazy mother
04:06
in the uae yeah that all the moms needed
04:09
that
04:09
so i mean as a mom it’s quite
04:13
when you first send your child to
04:14
nursery that sort of initial
04:16
transition into them going to a nursery
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is is a challenge in itself isn’t it the
04:21
emotions that you feel as a mom
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and the fact that you’re obviously
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leaving your child with somebody else
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all day and then on top of that you must
04:28
have had that worry that
04:30
oh my gosh he might not eat his food
04:32
like that as a
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combination must have been quite
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stressful
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it was quite stressful so as every child
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he was crying he was not happy to go
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but then on top of that he was not
04:43
eating so he was cranky all the time so
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for sure that his
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first weeks at nursery were horrible
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because we were trying to sort out his
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food and you know
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by now i understand this child needs
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snacks every two hours
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so he used to stay in nursery for four
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hours without eating
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more than one grape and one strawberry
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that didn’t touch
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so that was horrible for him and for me
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and for the teacher and for everybody
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now the funny part here is that
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until very recently i did have a
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full-time job
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so i am an investment banker by
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degree i used to be a consultant at
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mckinsey
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and then i worked for a very long time
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like seven years
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in corporate strategy and investment for
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a very large media group in the uae
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so i’m a numbers person and i have no
05:35
idea what
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plastic safety all that stuff like the
05:39
technical materials are
05:41
so uh when we launched and we started
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and the manufacturer were asking me
05:47
questions and i’m like just giving me
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the best quality the safest thing
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and they were like no but do you want
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tppt or
05:54
tpptg i’m like what are you talking
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about
05:59
and it took me a very long time and i’m
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still not a technical person you know
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i just apply um apply like logic to
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things
06:08
and a lot of time i take decisions dry
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some stuff work quite well and some
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stuff were like a huge mistake
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like we did those uh bamboo lunch boxes
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made of hundred percent of bamboo
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but nobody told me that if you don’t put
06:25
melanin which
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are this or causing plastic that
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nobody wants
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the bamboo became breakable very easy to
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break
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so we ended up with like a huge quantity
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of pure bamboo lunch boxes that are not
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really
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i mean we still sell them but
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i mean i keep on getting people saying
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oh my son dropped it and
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it’s it’s broke and i’m like yeah it
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would break because it’s like literally
06:50
bamboo with corn starch so just imagine
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what it is
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so it’s almost like if you eat it
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nothing will happen to you you know what
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i mean
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so i’m like yeah sorry i know it’s
07:01
horrible but
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it is what it is it breaks because i
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decided not to put any nasties in it
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now if we do put nasties then it doesn’t
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break and it still gives you the feeling
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that it’s bamboo but it’s not really
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right so my mantra is always very simple
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i always
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say whatever i wouldn’t give to my kids
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i wouldn’t set
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so i don’t i take this very very very
07:24
seriously
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and i am as i told you i’m not an
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engineer i’m not a technical person
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i have no idea about product design i’m
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not a designer
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i wouldn’t be able to draw a circle
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perfectly to be honest
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uh the only thing i know is i have an
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in-house full-time designer
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with my work quite a lot and i drive
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crazy the only thing i know is that i
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have a style in mind
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and i have things that i like and things
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that i don’t like so this is all i can
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tell her and by now after three years
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she knows me
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that’s something but i don’t know i mean
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i’m sure she probably designs things and
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knows that
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you know she probably already can guess
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which ones you’ll prefer and then work
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on yes
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yes yes and every year we try to get
08:11
better
08:12
and better this year we had the
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superhero in dubai skyline
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yeah i love that by the way the batman
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and i showed my husband and he was like
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could i have one yeah my husband got one
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it’s so funny and my son told me
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yesterday because we have launched um a
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cookie cutters for halloween and my son
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was like can i have the superhero
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in the dark what did he call it the
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superhero in the dark with like a batman
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witch
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i’m like what is the batman witch he’s
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like you don’t know it
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i’m like okay fine so apparently this is
08:46
quite trendy now
08:48
it’s called the batman witch i have no
08:50
idea what is a batman witch but it’s
08:51
something to do with halloween
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apparently
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it’s not the witch hat it’s a batman
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with the witch i have no idea
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well that’s i mean at least you can get
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some inspiration from your son
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yes he is the source of my inspiration
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and
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um i have twin daughters that are 10
09:09
months old
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and they are the source of inspiration
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of the new collection
09:13
and a new segment we’re launching which
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is uh baby feeding
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plates balls and a lot of feeding
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products because uh while i was with
09:23
them here
09:24
during the lockdown and we started again
09:26
introducing the solids
09:28
i just realized that um there were few
09:30
things that were not available
09:33
and um i was like okay
09:36
i need to make them if i could make the
09:40
lunch boxes and those are like
09:42
much more technical than the place i can
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make the place
09:46
yeah yeah we are on a new adventures of
09:49
making new stuff that are being patented
09:51
as we speak
09:52
and the patterns take a bit of time but
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hopefully the patent will get out and we
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can
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we can kick off by end of this year
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that’s so exciting what i love about um
10:04
your food jars are great too
10:05
because um do you know the insulated
10:07
food jars yeah i used
10:09
those a lot when my daughter was younger
10:11
because she preferred like
10:13
the home-cooked food so like things
10:15
would make at home so it was great just
10:16
to like pack and put in my bag so i knew
10:19
even if we were out in a restaurant i
10:20
always had like a backup meal for her
10:23
yes uh those i mean you see my son never
10:26
ate in a restaurant so until today if we
10:29
go to restaurants he would eat like if
10:31
they have any fish fingers or anything
10:33
or he would eat plain bread or plain
10:35
rice or plain
10:36
pasta so i never count on restaurants as
10:39
a food option for him so i’m always
10:40
carrying food
10:42
um he never ate one single thing from an
10:45
airplane
10:46
platter never so i’m that mom that has
10:50
to travel with like
10:51
a lot of food packed and i have to make
10:54
sure it stays fresh and i have the ice
10:56
packs and all that stuff
10:58
so yeah i do know where you’re coming
11:00
from and and the food jar is uh until
11:02
today he uses them because when he wakes
11:04
up in the morning he tells us what he
11:06
wants
11:07
so he would be like today i would like
11:09
the food jar with some pasta bolognese
11:11
that’s it
11:12
and some fruits he would say and that
11:15
makes life easier
11:16
um this week’s he’s been stuck on just
11:19
wanting rice
11:20
so we give him rice so it depends on his
11:22
mood but it’s okay to eat rice
11:24
cold but not pasta so it’s a bit weird
11:28
you must be like always carrying around
11:31
a really heavy bag with you
11:32
like i’m sorry for the amount of food
11:35
that you must have to carry around with
11:36
you
11:37
i mean it’s heavy it’s it’s bulky it’s
11:40
big
11:40
but um he i mean two things i make sure
11:44
that we give him 99.9
11:47
a homemade food so even if we’re packing
11:50
a pizza or anything it’s something we do
11:51
from the dough to the tomato face to
11:54
everything we
11:54
i mean i we cook everything at home
11:58
and uh the second thing is for me the
12:01
most important
12:02
is that he eats something that is has
12:04
some kind of nutritious value
12:06
so thanks to those boxes and the
12:09
compartments and the accessories he’s
12:11
now eating avocado cucumbers oranges
12:14
i mean so many things tomatoes
12:17
that he would never ever have touched
12:19
few years ago
12:20
when we just started all this um he’s
12:23
never had a sandwich and he started last
12:26
year
12:27
um accepting to have a dino
12:30
sandwich because he thought dinosaurs
12:32
were cool
12:34
and when he opened his lunch box at
12:36
school all his friends were like oh
12:37
you’re lucky you have a dino
12:39
so there’s a lot of peer pressure i feel
12:42
when it comes to food and he knows
12:44
that um his picky and his friends just
12:47
eat
12:47
anything like anything and he’s like oh
12:50
my friend today had broccoli and he
12:52
loved it so i want to try brock in my
12:54
lunchbox tomorrow
12:55
so we’re like yeah sure fine
12:59
please be my guest yeah that’s awesome
13:01
because like at least
13:02
you can introduce new foods through
13:05
introducing them in a different way i’m
13:06
sure so many moms
13:08
are happy that you actually have given
13:09
them the opportunity to
13:11
use all these different cutouts and
13:14
like different ways to eat foods
13:17
so the idea was also very simple is that
13:21
me as a mom i had a lot of theory of i
13:24
mean i used to go on pinterest and get
13:26
recipes and get
13:27
all that stuff but i didn’t have the
13:29
tools to do the things
13:30
yeah so the tools didn’t existed the
13:32
cutters were not here the lunch boxes
13:34
were not here
13:35
everything to make uh the food fun and
13:38
cute was not existent here
13:40
so the idea was like why don’t we give
13:41
them others to not only the theory we
13:44
will tell you
13:45
you could do this but then okay i can
13:47
tell you you can do that but you need to
13:49
ship it from the states
13:50
why you know what i mean so the idea was
13:53
let’s give the mother all the tools to
13:55
make the her life easier and make the
13:58
kid have a fun lunch time so and
14:01
and this works yeah i mean how cool is
14:03
that and also
14:05
it must be quite interesting that you
14:07
can just pack these boxes when you go
14:08
out for like a picnic or if you’re going
14:10
out to the beach
14:11
and you know it’s a great way to
14:12
actually transport food so it’s not just
14:14
for
14:14
lunch really i’m sure using them for
14:17
other
14:18
um honestly like my son
14:22
i mean yesterday i dropped him to
14:24
football from home to football he was
14:26
eating his snack in the car he didn’t
14:28
have time to eat it there
14:30
he didn’t finish his snack it stayed in
14:31
the car i picked him back again after an
14:34
hour he finished his smack in the car
14:36
so for me i always always always have a
14:39
snack box with me
14:40
and he never ever leaves the house
14:42
without a water bottle
14:45
yeah so the water bottles again were
14:46
created based
14:48
on a need because i used to pick him up
14:50
from his football and
14:52
last year it was he was playing outdoors
14:55
and he wouldn’t drink a sip of water
14:57
after like one hour a football and i’m
14:59
like
15:00
honey you need to drink water and he’s
15:01
like mommy but it’s hot
15:04
and this where i realized that the
15:05
plastic water bottles where we live here
15:07
are probably not the best option because
15:09
the water becomes
15:11
kind of hot and the kids don’t want it
15:14
so we did create those ones it was like
15:16
double insulated then we made sure after
15:19
testing
15:20
so many months that it works and then we
15:23
launched them and they’re like a total
15:24
hit
15:25
i mean literally everybody’s saying oh
15:27
wow the kids are drinking more
15:30
the water stays cold and fresh we love
15:32
it so
15:33
most of the products come from a real
15:35
need and the real gap in the market it’s
15:37
not any marketing gimmicks or stuff like
15:40
that they’re like really they work i
15:41
mean i’m even surprised myself to be
15:43
honest with you
15:44
like i have the big water bottles i take
15:46
it with me in the morning and i keep it
15:48
in the car
15:48
throughout the day and whenever i’m
15:51
thirsty i just drink and i’m
15:52
always surprised that the water is cold
15:54
because my car stays outside in like
15:57
45 degrees and still the water is cold
16:01
so and and i can show you like hundreds
16:03
of messages of mothers telling
16:05
us oh thank you the water is really cold
16:09
it does work and all that stuff so
16:11
very very very very happy with with the
16:13
water bottles that we actually launched
16:16
in uh during the lockdown they arrived
16:19
in april
16:20
wow the insulated bottles are incredible
16:22
because i think
16:23
it’s not just um the fact that it keeps
16:25
the water cool plastic
16:27
leaves a taste in the water right yeah
16:29
you’ve
16:30
opened a plastic bottle or you’ve had
16:32
like even the reusable plastic bottles
16:34
after a few months they taste quite
16:36
the water tastes different it tastes
16:38
funny when you put water in there
16:40
and i had a very similar experience with
16:41
my daughter where she just stopped
16:43
drinking water and i couldn’t figure out
16:45
why she’d gone from drinking quite a bit
16:47
of water to not much at all and
16:48
when i took a sip out of her plastic
16:50
bottle you could taste that the water
16:51
tasted really funny like we’ve had a few
16:53
months
16:54
and like i’m definitely a huge fan of
16:57
insulated bottles i think
16:58
they’re incredible they’re really good
17:01
and
17:01
we’re working on a new technology um to
17:04
be launched by
17:05
next year which would be um
17:08
to make sure that as a mom again um i
17:12
lose quite
17:13
a few stuff of my son so we’re gonna
17:15
start
17:16
having attack that will be able to trace
17:20
the products wow that would be awesome
17:22
the idea is that
17:24
if somebody finds it you can just scan
17:27
a code and then it sends the owner a
17:29
message saying this person found it
17:31
if you want to get in touch with him and
17:33
get it back for you
17:34
and this would be so useful also for the
17:36
schools because the lost and found is
17:39
horrible
17:40
okay i was just going to say that i’m
17:41
sure the schools will be so happy you
17:43
implemented that yeah they could just
17:45
send everyone a message
17:46
just see your bottles here come and come
17:48
yeah exactly
17:49
and it’s very easy to use it’s just a
17:52
picture that you need to take and this
17:54
literally sends a message on the spot
17:56
so yes we have so many things coming up
17:59
and it’s very exciting the only thing i
18:01
don’t have is the time
18:03
i was i was actually just going to come
18:05
to that you do so much it seems like
18:07
you’re doing so much with the company
18:09
and then you’ve got
18:10
two twins which honestly like that is
18:13
incredible that you’ve
18:14
managed to raise twins because one is
18:17
hard enough so i’m
18:18
like i don’t know how yeah and with the
18:21
twins i went like literally the opposite
18:23
direction than
18:24
with my son um like before the call i
18:27
was just downstairs
18:28
and they wanted a snack and i just found
18:30
the leftover burger that
18:32
my husband cooked for lunch and i just
18:35
gave it to them and they just ate it and
18:37
i’m like there you go
18:39
just eat anything you find not to be a
18:41
difficult person
18:44
and they looked at me i’m like whatever
18:46
just eat anything
18:47
and i just i don’t know it’s it’s a lot
18:50
of
18:50
learnings but i’m just trying my best to
18:53
introduce them every single type of food
18:55
before they start saying
18:57
i don’t like it like i made like tuna
19:00
pasta last week
19:01
just so they can eat some of this
19:03
because my son would never try those
19:05
things
19:05
did they try oh yeah they tried it they
19:08
ate it
19:09
oh amazing um it’s interesting i hear
19:12
that so much that when you come to your
19:14
second you’re just way more relaxed and
19:16
you kind of just
19:16
yeah whatever i didn’t even google if
19:19
you can give i
19:20
am in with my son i used to google every
19:22
new food
19:23
when can i introduce this to my baby and
19:26
i’m like whatever
19:28
they’ll turn out if we haven’t tried it
19:31
yes
19:32
try it i’m sure you’ll eat it and yeah
19:35
i mean and they’re twins so they’re very
19:37
competitive between each other
19:39
which is very interesting but um
19:42
yeah it’s i’m just trying to learn from
19:45
my mistakes and also
19:47
see what works and what doesn’t but for
19:49
sure thanks to my son’s fussiness uh we
19:52
sold quite a few of
19:53
lunch boxes and snack boxes so i’m very
19:55
happy that
19:56
we we we helped so many moms that that’s
20:00
that are struggling like us yeah i mean
20:02
at least you find the
20:04
the like the silver lining in all of the
20:06
fussiness that your
20:07
son brought because there was a need for
20:10
this and at least you
20:11
actually identify managed to identify
20:12
that need
20:14
yes yes we’re very happy with that
20:17
how do you manage your time between
20:19
having sort of three children
20:21
three really young children because
20:23
they’re all under five
20:24
and actually managing a business as well
20:27
that’s doing incredibly well
20:30
um here is the trick i have an
20:32
incredible team
20:34
that is doing almost everything
20:37
um i rely quite a lot on them i’m
20:40
somebody that
20:41
um so i work uh the morning until about
20:45
3
20:45
4 p.m and then from four to six i’m with
20:49
the kids
20:50
and then i start working again when they
20:52
sleep
20:54
so i usually go to bed between 10
20:57
11 and i have about three four hours
21:00
evening hours where i don’t have any
21:03
staff member
21:03
any clients anyone sending me an email
21:06
and i just catch up on all the work for
21:09
the day
21:09
i just find the evening to be like much
21:12
more productive because i just don’t
21:14
have anybody to
21:15
to talk to i do try to train three times
21:18
a week
21:20
so i train with my husband we we do like
21:23
some sort of
21:24
intense yoga workout that we like to
21:27
call
21:27
yoga but i don’t think it’s nothing to
21:29
do with yoga
21:31
it’s like trx with like yoga with
21:33
stretching
21:34
plus some kind of uh cardio so it
21:38
it just keeps me sane and and and keeps
21:42
me going but
21:43
what um so i used to have a full-time
21:46
job until
21:47
uh beginning of this year right and i
21:50
had a friend that was
21:51
yeah so i so i had citron and i had the
21:55
friend that was managing all the
21:56
operations right right
21:58
um but then in december she just tells
22:02
me my husband
22:03
is going back to france so i’m going
22:04
back with him and then at that point of
22:07
time i just delivered the twins
22:09
right and i’m like oh what do i do now i
22:12
need to focus on citron i need to give
22:14
citron my hundred percent but i mean to
22:16
turn in my baby also
22:18
and i need to i know that i’m not gonna
22:21
have more kids
22:22
and i’m done so i need to spend time
22:24
with the twins and
22:25
i can’t be spending time with the twins
22:27
giving time to citron
22:29
and then working full-time and my job i
22:32
worked with like the ceo of a very large
22:35
company and we were working
22:37
from 8 am to midnight daily and we had
22:40
like so much things going and
22:42
it was just not possible to manage
22:44
anymore so i did resign
22:47
in february of
22:50
this year and then from that time until
22:53
now i’m just having the time like
22:55
now i can sit with the twins for two
22:57
hours a day i can train for one hour and
23:00
i totally disconnect it means i’m not
23:02
touching my phone
23:04
i’m not doing anything and i’m not
23:06
feeling guilty about it so this is what
23:08
citron has given me
23:10
uh obviously i used to earn a huge
23:13
salary
23:14
i mean by huge like very very large
23:17
um and and which i don’t have today but
23:20
my lifestyle hasn’t changed
23:22
and and it’s just that i feel happier
23:25
that i have time to spend with the kids
23:27
versus feeling
23:28
always stressed and in panic that um i
23:32
have to answer this email i have to
23:33
finish this now and all that stuff so
23:36
um it’s just a totally different
23:39
experience from corporate to
23:41
to doing your own thing and and doing
23:44
the thing that you’re passionate about
23:45
and finding the time to spend quality
23:47
time with your kids without feeling
23:49
guilty about
23:50
it yeah it’s so interesting you
23:53
you say that um it’s different
23:56
i mean being an entrepreneur comes with
23:58
its own challenges right like now the
24:01
responsibilities are new to make sure
24:03
that you know the business goes a
24:04
certain way
24:06
um yeah with that comes a little bit of
24:08
flexibility so
24:10
yeah i mean obviously you’re working you
24:13
can take that gap in the middle of the
24:15
day but
24:15
it does come with different challenges
24:17
doesn’t it yeah
24:18
so as an entrepreneur i think it’s a big
24:21
roller coaster
24:23
uh you have um the highs are super high
24:26
like uh i was like dancing at some point
24:30
and my husband is looking at me he’s on
24:31
a call and he’s like what and i’m like
24:33
i’m so happy i’m just receiving the
24:35
server out report from the stores and
24:37
we’re just rocking number
24:39
one position in terms of sales in like
24:42
uh all the major
24:43
retail stores and then the laws are very
24:45
low so
24:46
at some point of time i had an issue
24:48
with the warehouse
24:49
i had an issue with customs uh with the
24:53
the tax authorities the i mean some
24:56
stuff that
24:57
i wasn’t even aware of and those things
25:00
are super scary and you need to be
25:03
strong and just carry on
25:06
so um it’s it’s you know so it’s
25:09
it’s a true rollercoaster like it’s it’s
25:11
really up and then it’s really down
25:14
and the key i think is just to carry on
25:17
um and my understanding from i mean all
25:21
the events i do
25:22
and all the entrepreneurs i talk to and
25:24
stuff is that
25:26
um they’re more lows than highs but
25:29
um it’s all worth it at the end
25:31
especially if it works
25:33
yeah and if you’re passionate about the
25:35
thing that you’re doing
25:36
then that really sort of is the thing
25:37
that drives you
25:39
yeah absolutely so uh what drives me
25:43
i mean for me as i was saying and i keep
25:45
on saying
25:46
and i think a lot of people don’t think
25:48
that makes sense
25:49
but i didn’t launch citron to be a
25:52
millionaire and be rich
25:54
that was not the case because if that
25:56
was the case i would have gotten the
25:58
cheapest possible product
26:00
and done some marketing and sold this
26:02
very expensive made some many high
26:04
margins and do
26:05
different things that was not the case
26:07
the case was like okay let’s get a
26:09
product that worked that the mothers
26:11
like
26:11
and and and and try and we’re still not
26:14
profitable as a business
26:16
because we still need the uae as a
26:19
market
26:19
although we’re like number one in terms
26:21
of back to school and
26:23
lunch boxes sales and everything here we
26:26
still
26:26
are very far from the volumes you need
26:30
to actually make proper money so you
26:33
will need like
26:34
to be number one in saudi and be number
26:37
one in egypt and be number one in two
26:39
three big countries
26:40
then it becomes an interesting business
26:43
if you know what i mean yeah so uae we
26:45
we cracked it
26:47
but it’s still not enough because there
26:48
are only one million children in the uae
26:51
yeah and out of that one million if you
26:54
just take we are like selling 60
26:57
to 80 000 products so that’s like five
27:00
to six percent
27:01
uh penetration i mean that’s the maximum
27:05
you would get i mean you can get 10
27:08
but you have the social economic uh
27:11
differences you have the age you have so
27:13
many things so out of the 1 million
27:15
maybe
27:16
your target audience is 2 200 hundred
27:19
thousand you know that’s gonna afford
27:21
our
27:21
and are on the right uh age group um
27:25
so you’re quite limited in terms of of
27:28
volume versus like saudi where you have
27:32
seven to ten million kids you know so
27:35
you’ve tested much more interest so
27:37
you’ve tested wayne
27:39
works in the uae so i guess now yes of
27:42
um extending past
27:43
that border and going into neighboring
27:46
countries first and then
27:47
yes you’ve got a bigger sort of goal in
27:49
mind and i’m assuming you’re trying to
27:51
go worldwide
27:53
yes we do so uh this year as of now as
27:56
of today
27:57
our first shipment has hit saudi and is
28:01
getting dispatched
28:02
to go to off uh to not offices to
28:05
stores and and online stores uh and
28:09
offline so
28:10
uh i think within a week or two we will
28:13
have
28:13
a big announcement about saudi arabia
28:16
that we’re going full pledge there we
28:18
signed the distribution
28:19
agreement and we’re very happy about it
28:22
and we think that would work i’m working
28:26
with um egypt it’s a little bit of a
28:29
tricky situation
28:30
because the egyptian government is very
28:32
protective
28:34
of the because egypt is a producer of
28:38
plastic products right so some some
28:41
products are very hard to put there but
28:43
we’re working with another amazing mummy
28:46
that loves the brand and and and on the
28:48
distributorship
28:49
then that really really wants the
28:51
egyptian moms to have the product
28:54
so um that’s the number two
28:58
i have had so many calls and discussions
29:02
with distributors for the uk and the us
29:05
so those are like big markets where
29:07
again you need
29:08
to be there because this is where the
29:11
the volume
29:12
and the scale is so i’m sure that the
29:15
uae as you said
29:16
is just a test market but unfortunately
29:19
is an expensive test market
29:21
because the salaries the license and all
29:23
the cost of operating are quite high
29:26
so you can’t be testing for so many
29:28
years
29:30
it’s um exciting times ahead though it
29:32
seems like you’ve got a lot going on
29:34
and a lot of exciting things happening
29:36
um congratulations with saudi
29:38
and obviously then on from there as well
29:41
so
29:41
such exciting things happening for you
29:43
at citroen
29:45
it is very exciting and i’m very proud
29:47
and happy that
29:49
this uh small project that literally i
29:52
opened the instagram page as
29:54
as fun and it started as a fun
29:58
project on the side ended up being like
30:01
my plan a and something that i’m very
30:04
passionate about and that a lot of moms
30:07
so i’m kind of very grateful yeah your
30:10
story is so inspiring
30:12
and i know that there are so many moms
30:14
that find you so
30:15
inspiring so yeah i’m really grateful
30:17
that you’re sharing this conversation
30:19
with me um course
30:21
pleasure always happy um let’s just take
30:25
it back to motherhood for a second let’s
30:26
just talk about your transition
30:28
from obviously an investment banker who
30:30
works really long hours
30:33
um to having a child how did you deal
30:36
with the transition how did it feel for
30:37
you
30:39
um so when i had so i used to be an
30:43
investment banker then i worked as a
30:45
consultant
30:45
in mckinsey for three years and i left
30:49
consulting because i i thought i
30:51
couldn’t do it anymore travel every week
30:53
and all that stuff
30:55
and i needed a family right so
30:58
i was like already 28 29 and i was like
31:01
okay i’m approaching my 30s maybe now
31:04
it’s the time to start you know
31:06
uh being more often in dubai and
31:08
thinking about
31:09
having a family um when i got ali i was
31:14
not at mckinsey anymore i was in the
31:17
media company i was working for here in
31:19
dubai and um it was
31:23
interesting because i am somebody
31:26
that is quite hyper and workaholic so
31:30
i usually um work used to work every day
31:34
until late night
31:35
and i would be bothered that if i had
31:37
nothing to do after 6 pm
31:40
my husband was also working a lot so we
31:42
just now work
31:43
right he’s never at home i finish at six
31:46
i feel bored
31:47
right so i used to always like if i was
31:50
working on a financial model
31:52
it would be like the most good looking
31:54
financial model you would ever find
31:56
because i would spend
31:57
so much time and making it not just
32:01
working but look good so um it’s
32:05
once i had my son i think my life was
32:08
like turned upside down
32:10
because all of a sudden i’m somebody
32:12
that needs some
32:13
i mean five hours of sleep minimum to be
32:16
able to function
32:17
and that was lost and then all of a
32:20
sudden
32:21
um i didn’t have that extra time to be
32:23
extra good at my work and i needed to be
32:27
more efficient because i wanted to be
32:29
with my son right so
32:31
um the sarah that’s used to spend 13 14
32:35
hours of
32:36
work a day had to do the same work in
32:39
five six hours
32:40
because i wanted to finish quickly come
32:42
home see him before he sleeps and then
32:44
work again when he sleeps
32:46
and meanwhile i was working on citron
32:49
also
32:50
and when he was older but still
32:55
the whole way of
32:58
working and and and doing things has
33:01
changed once once i had ali and i think
33:04
the biggest learning here is is that um
33:07
the 80 20 rule
33:08
is very important and and working very
33:12
efficiently and making sure you’re
33:13
finishing the things you’re supposed to
33:15
do
33:16
and not i mean i am somebody that loves
33:19
excellence and always push more for more
33:22
even with the people who work with me
33:23
they know that
33:25
i mean i don’t accept that somebody does
33:27
not answer my emails for four or five
33:29
days
33:29
for me this is just outrageous it
33:31
doesn’t work like this
33:33
i know that this works like this in the
33:34
uae and it’s quite normal
33:36
i’m somebody that will answer your
33:38
emails maximum within
33:40
the same day and minimum within an hour
33:44
so sometimes i would answer within 10 to
33:46
15 minutes
33:47
i cannot sleep at night if i have
33:49
unanswered emails
33:50
i wouldn’t do it and that i’m telling
33:53
you sometimes i have 200 emails in one
33:55
day i will make sure
33:57
that i will skim through whatever needs
34:00
my attention and needs my answer i will
34:03
answer it on the phone
34:04
so i i i’ve been trained like this and
34:08
and i expect people to work like this
34:10
but unfortunately they don’t
34:12
yeah i mean what do you do to sort of
34:14
encourage them then
34:16
well honestly like my team they know me
34:19
by now so
34:20
they know not to be scared if they
34:22
receive an email
34:23
at six a.m on a friday that i don’t
34:25
expect them to answer
34:27
but they know that um i would expect
34:30
them to
34:31
to to do things the same day so if i
34:34
request something
34:35
i do tell them if it’s urgent or if i
34:38
need it the same day
34:39
or stuff like that especially on the
34:40
admin side
34:42
i don’t like to keep anything pending or
34:44
any
34:45
any invoices anything that we need to
34:47
send just like wait for next week or
34:50
wait for after the week and stuff like
34:52
that
34:52
finish it and go sleep no problem nobody
34:54
would call you but if we do have urgent
34:56
things and
34:57
things to be closed i always expect it
35:00
to be done
35:00
daily now my issue here in the uae is
35:03
that
35:04
talent is very hard to find and talent
35:07
comes from very different cultures
35:09
and some people were trained that
35:12
answering
35:13
or updating things once a month is the
35:16
norm
35:17
for me i tell them you guys i mean we
35:19
have so many things
35:20
so many systems and trackers and excel
35:23
sheets and
35:24
mod i mean so many things that needs to
35:26
be updated daily
35:28
uh otherwise it binds up and you have no
35:30
clue what is what
35:31
and it takes you forever to reconcile so
35:34
um
35:35
i just think look i i push everybody to
35:37
to do their best
35:38
and then some can some cannot and
35:42
it is what it is you know if you want to
35:44
work with me you just have to
35:47
to to to try for excellence and not
35:50
average
35:51
i i tell everyone i don’t accept average
35:53
in anything
35:54
average for me is bad so and
35:58
and if you don’t do great you can we
36:00
can’t work together
36:01
yeah there is nothing worse for me than
36:03
receiving like an email with tons of
36:05
typos
36:06
and mistakes everywhere because you read
36:10
half of the email and we did spend two
36:12
minutes trying to read again and
36:14
those kind of things yeah so i think
36:17
what i take from that is communication
36:18
that you’re really clear with what you
36:20
want from your team members which is
36:22
great because at least they know what
36:23
the expectation is
36:25
and the other thing i take from that is
36:26
actually you want people to do better at
36:28
what they can do so that’s amazing i
36:30
think if you can
36:31
be in a job in a role where you can
36:33
actually improve as a person
36:34
and as an employee and as per like you
36:36
know then take those skills maybe to
36:38
another job potentially that’s i think
36:40
that’s
36:40
i’m sure they’re grateful for being
36:42
pushed i mean
36:44
i hope so but some really don’t like to
36:46
be pushed
36:48
some don’t like it some don’t survive um
36:51
there is a lot of
36:52
man female ego sometimes uh
36:55
you know so it’s not easy to be a me
36:58
a woman a woman in a main world i’m
37:01
telling you
37:02
especially like in when you’re talking
37:05
about
37:06
blue colors or we’re talking about some
37:08
people that are used to
37:10
again average low being the norm uh it’s
37:14
tough
37:14
i mean so many times i find myself in
37:16
situations where i’ll be like
37:18
i wish i was a man just for five minutes
37:20
because
37:22
i want these guys to listen to me and
37:24
then i just have to man up
37:26
and like put it in my head okay act as
37:30
if you were a man
37:31
and just like i don’t like screaming and
37:33
shouting and all that stuff
37:35
so it’s not me and and i always try to
37:38
keep my cool
37:39
and but sometimes it’s tough it’s really
37:42
tough
37:42
yeah i’ll give you just a simple thing
37:46
um we’re moving warehouses right so i
37:48
get a contractor and we agree on
37:50
everything that needs to be shifted and
37:52
moved
37:53
yesterday i go and then i’m like okay
37:56
you move 50 percent where is the other
37:58
50 percent he’s like oh
37:59
sorry i took another job i can’t do
38:03
oh it and i’m like what but we agreed on
38:06
the prize we agreed on the time like
38:08
like yeah it’s a lot of work and my boss
38:11
told me to take the other job so why
38:13
don’t you find somebody else
38:15
that’s terrible i mean those type of
38:18
situations
38:20
these are just one of this is one of
38:21
just a few challenges that you have to
38:23
deal with as a business oh god
38:25
yeah it’s it’s a lot of challenges so
38:28
then i had like literally to start
38:30
screaming at the guy and i’m like you
38:32
can’t do that
38:34
you gotta find the solution and they’re
38:35
like oh no
38:37
oh blob i mean it was tough and and i
38:40
find myself in quite a lot of this
38:42
situations where sometimes i wish i
38:44
could just have like the smallest
38:46
possible business where i’m the only one
38:48
working because
38:49
the more you work with people and
38:51
contractor and people that are not
38:53
professional the more it makes you
38:55
don’t want to work with anyone anymore
38:56
you know what i mean yeah
38:58
they say that’s the the hardest part of
39:00
having a business is managing a team
39:03
yes it is it’s it’s really tough and you
39:06
know again we’re in the uae
39:08
we have people from different culture
39:10
and
39:12
religions and way of doing things and
39:16
sensibilities
39:17
and egos and and having
39:21
so many nationalities is amazing but at
39:23
the same time
39:24
people are really really really really
39:27
hard to manage
39:28
and and and i can see it you know what i
39:30
mean because when you have all of them
39:32
from the same nationality they gang up
39:34
and
39:34
and and push themselves down and then
39:36
when you have different nationalities
39:38
they don’t like to work together and
39:40
you just have to try until you find the
39:42
right mix
39:43
and and i can tell you until today it’s
39:45
not an easy thing
39:47
it’s tough some people are with me since
39:49
the beginning and some people
39:51
are are just not gonna make it for over
39:54
a month or two i know
39:56
they won’t make it it’s the thing i hear
39:58
from all
39:59
um entrepreneurs or business owners that
40:02
that is the most challenging aspect like
40:05
having a team
40:06
that functions well that you can keep
40:08
motivated and inspired
40:11
and also then that they adopt to the
40:13
culture that you’re building
40:15
so yeah i hear it from everybody
40:18
and i’m somebody that is very flexible
40:21
in terms of working hours
40:23
where they work from and all that stuff
40:25
because most of the time i’m like
40:27
work from er wherever you want all we
40:29
want is the end result you know
40:31
but um it’s not easy
40:36
if um you could give a piece of advice
40:39
to
40:40
any mom would there be anything that you
40:42
specifically
40:43
would give in terms of advice to mums
40:46
any advice i would give a mom
40:48
is like enjoy the time you spend with
40:51
the little ones because they grow very
40:52
fast
40:54
enjoy the moment and try to just
40:56
disconnect from
40:57
any tone or anything and just enjoy the
41:00
moment with the kids
41:01
and and and know that you’re doing
41:04
the best because i see so much mom guilt
41:07
going on
41:08
and so much bullying and pressure going
41:10
on on social media and i just think that
41:13
it’s unfair
41:14
because i don’t know any mom that wakes
41:17
up in the morning and says i’m gonna be
41:18
a bad mom today
41:20
i think every single one of us is trying
41:22
to do their best and every single one of
41:24
us is like doing
41:25
the best they could and even more than
41:27
what the kid even is expecting from us
41:30
so i think at some point we just need to
41:33
to to be nicer on ourselves and
41:36
and make sure we enjoy the moment and
41:38
enjoy whatever we
41:40
feel is the right thing we do with our
41:42
child you know it’s your child you do
41:44
whatever you want
41:45
you enjoy your time and you take your
41:47
decisions
41:48
and there is nobody that should judge
41:50
you and and take you down
41:52
and i i see it a lot i mean i’m on some
41:55
facebook groups where the moms are just
41:58
wow judging and taking down others and
42:02
like
42:02
why don’t you give that to your kid how
42:04
come how shame
42:07
i love that it’s such an important
42:09
message right i think
42:11
yeah mom guilt is huge and having the
42:14
added pressure that other people then
42:16
add to that guilt
42:17
is is not helpful at all if you had a
42:21
piece of advice for a mom
42:23
like building a her own business or a
42:25
new venture
42:27
do you have any advice for her um
42:30
i mean use your network
42:33
make sure that word of mouth is there
42:38
make sure you use your network to spread
42:40
your idea
42:41
to help you test the products just
42:43
whatever you want to do
42:46
believe it will work and and go for it
42:50
honestly like there is no shame in
42:52
building something
42:54
from scratch i think whatever it is be
42:57
proud of
42:58
it spread the word make sure you use
43:01
your connection your friends your family
43:03
everyone and and believe it would work i
43:07
mean i know
43:07
so many people so many of my friends
43:10
that own businesses
43:12
and a lot of them they’re like oh
43:15
whenever we talk to you we go back and
43:17
we want to do it better but when we
43:18
don’t see you for a long time we feel we
43:20
should stop
43:22
and i’m always i’m like
43:25
just believe in it if you don’t believe
43:26
in it then don’t do it
43:28
if you don’t believe in your product
43:31
what would the customer do
43:33
i mean you gotta believe in it one
43:35
thousand times
43:36
hoping that the customer will believe in
43:38
it 20 times you know what i mean yeah
43:40
if you as the person behind it not
43:42
believe in it then just
43:44
don’t waste your time and not waste your
43:45
money and how do you
43:47
believe in your thing yeah you have to
43:50
have that belief to be able to drive it
43:52
forward
43:53
yes and and you know for me we launched
43:56
it it was a sight thing
43:58
it was fun and then it picked up and the
44:00
more it kept on picking up and people
44:02
loving it and people sending me messages
44:05
daily saying
44:06
we love it thank you the lunch box came
44:08
back empty
44:09
the only thing i was thinking about is
44:11
that the smile on that mother’s face
44:13
when she opens the lunch box and the
44:14
food has been eaten and not tantrum and
44:16
the kids are happy
44:18
um before i mean i was on a face on a
44:21
whatsapp group in my school
44:23
in my son’s school and this mother sends
44:27
this very cute message not knowing that
44:29
i own citron
44:30
right she just said my son
44:33
lost his elephant or his giraffe
44:37
foot pick and uh he won’t eat his fruit
44:40
anymore so
44:41
if any one of your kids took it please
44:44
if you can return it back because i
44:46
don’t know where to buy them from
44:48
and those were ours and she didn’t know
44:51
that
44:51
and then i just answered back saying oh
44:53
i think ali took them i’ll send you a
44:55
box tomorrow
44:56
and i just sent her a new box and she
44:59
literally like sent me like a message
45:01
where she was like
45:02
teary eyes saying thank you so much you
45:04
have no idea he would not touch his
45:06
fruits if we don’t put that
45:08
and you see like money wise for sure i’m
45:11
not making what they used to make
45:13
but for me hearing that the kid is
45:16
eating
45:17
fruit because he has the right tools is
45:20
is all worth it so that’s enough for me
45:23
to make it all worth it you know and and
45:26
this is what drives me daily is
45:28
everybody’s feedback and everybody is
45:32
that people are happy that the kids are
45:34
eating better and
45:35
this is all i want such a heartwarming
45:38
um
45:38
feeling that you’re actually making a
45:41
difference to a child and a mom
45:43
right yeah i mean i can imagine why
45:46
like you’re so excited to wake up every
45:48
day and do this day in day out
45:50
honestly like my son yesterday i dropped
45:52
him um as i was studying here at
45:54
football and he came out
45:56
and he’s like mommy you know in my
45:58
football there were three little boys
46:00
with the citron
46:01
water bottle so now he can recognize
46:04
them and he tells that this is my
46:05
mommy’s brand
46:07
oh that’s so sweet i mean you’re
46:10
actually
46:11
you’re a true inspiration for your
46:12
children for sure i’m like it’s amazing
46:15
to be able to say that you’re their mom
46:17
i mean i was at finis last time with him
46:20
and
46:21
i was just checking that everything was
46:23
merchandised well
46:24
and there was one guy trying to buy a
46:27
lunchbox and
46:28
i just start saying look mommy look
46:30
mommy he wants to take your product
46:32
and the guy looks at us and he’s
46:36
like oh does he have the same one
46:38
because
46:39
obviously you know yeah and i’m like
46:41
yeah yeah he has the same
46:43
and then he was like no this is my
46:45
mommy’s brand and the guy was like
46:47
oh are you the distributor of this brand
46:49
and i’m like no i own the brand i
46:51
created it
46:52
and the guy literally took for all his
46:54
kids and he’s like oh wow it’s a dubai
46:56
brand i thought it’s some european brand
46:58
blah blah blah
47:00
so cool well if it’s a dubai-based thing
47:02
i want to support and he took so many
47:04
more
47:05
and it’s just that i feel very happy and
47:09
proud of my
47:10
son that he could recognize all these
47:11
things and
47:13
i feel happy that he knows that all this
47:15
is thanks to him because he knows
47:18
and he comes with me to the warehouse
47:20
and when we do any design especially the
47:23
boys designs he reviews it
47:25
i remember the dino one we did we had to
47:28
change it and the designer wasn’t
47:30
very happy about it because i was like
47:34
well
47:34
ali thinks that this dinosaur is not the
47:37
good dinosaur it’s a bad dinosaur
47:39
because apparently they’re good at bad
47:40
things
47:41
and she said what do you mean and i’m
47:43
like i mean we need to change it
47:46
and she’s like no come on because like
47:49
we roll it off in like
47:50
bags and food jars and i mean it’s so
47:53
much work
47:54
and i’m like sorry we need to find the
47:56
nice dinosaur
47:58
and we went ahead and we changed it yeah
48:02
he sounds like a true salesman no so he
48:05
managed to selfie
48:06
he’s got input on the design i think
48:08
he’s got it oh yeah put it already
48:10
he is and he he asks for i would like a
48:13
blue color
48:14
and he asked me like recently he’s like
48:16
can you please
48:17
um make me a water bottle but uh with
48:20
the football stars i’m like what do you
48:22
mean he’s like imagine there is messi
48:25
and ronaldo i’m like that’s gonna be
48:27
difficult
48:29
i don’t have that type of money to buy
48:31
like all this stuff no
48:33
sorry he’s like just i would like like
48:35
all my
48:36
football players to be in there so yeah
48:38
he is
48:39
he’s my source of inspiration and and as
48:42
he grows you will see the product
48:43
growing with him
48:45
and the designs and the friends and and
48:47
everything we do
48:48
uh would grow based on them because
48:51
he is my true source of inspiration and
48:55
i learned from him daily i that’s
48:58
amazing and i’m so excited to see the
49:00
brand grow it’s incredible what you’ve
49:01
achieved
49:02
so far and i wish you the best of luck
49:03
going forward as well i’m
49:05
i know you’ll do amazing thank you so
49:08
much thank you
49:11
why don’t you take a little clip of a
49:13
nugget of information that you love from
49:15
this episode
49:16
share it on social media and don’t
49:18
forget to tag at
49:19
my mama app and citron dubai
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